Transcript
[0:00] Hey hello Katie how's Vanessa I'm well
[0:05] unwell great good to see you
[0:08] wonderful to see you I'm super excited
[0:11] to to get to meet you and connect with
[0:13] you and dive into your amazing wisdom
[0:16] and share that with our audience and yes
[0:19] so just wanting to really welcome you to
[0:21] the limitless potential podcast and I
[0:24] was such a pleasure to have you thank
[0:26] you thank you for the amazing
[0:29] opportunity just to share maybe
[0:32] something helpful for people
[0:35] definitely definitely annual beautiful
[0:37] by the way
[0:37] well thank you thank you thank you you
[0:43] know it's one of those things I can say
[0:44] you know I had absolutely nothing to do
[0:46] with that's all that's amazing and maybe
[0:54] I would absolutely you know I've been
[0:56] following your work for a few years now
[0:58] and just constantly and reminded and
[1:02] getting insights and allies and sharing
[1:05] that with my clients and our audience
[1:08] I'm so glad yeah it's wonderful it's
[1:12] wonderful I don't like this a house
[1:13] worth living definitely definitely and I
[1:18] think that's what your work really wakes
[1:20] up all up to so I wondered if you might
[1:23] obviously know part of your story but I
[1:26] wondered if you might take us back to a
[1:27] bit of the story about how the work
[1:30] began for you and share that with on
[1:33] those totems us out there who aren't
[1:36] totally familiar with your story maybe
[1:38] this is very new to them and love to
[1:41] dive into a piece of that story about
[1:43] how it all started and where you were in
[1:45] in your life at that point well I was
[1:47] very depressed clinically depressed and
[1:51] almost a decade more or less I don't
[1:54] know it was hard and and I would lie on
[2:00] the floor one morning just in a dead
[2:03] sleep and a cockroach called over my
[2:07] foot and I opened my eyes and all the
[2:10] suffering was gone all the depression
[2:12] was gone
[2:13] and and I saw in that moment that when I
[2:17] believed my thoughts I suffered and when
[2:20] I didn't believe them and that's what
[2:23] that moment showed me there was no
[2:25] suffering and that was the difference
[2:27] between suffering and no suffering so
[2:30] I've come to see that this is true for
[2:32] every human being when we believe our
[2:34] thoughts we suffer when we don't believe
[2:37] our thoughts we don't suffer and I'm
[2:39] talking about the thoughts that go
[2:40] against the heart and when we're in
[2:42] touch with our true nature which is what
[2:45] my work is all about you know the you
[2:47] know this interview everything I do it's
[2:50] about just passing on to others that
[2:53] there is a simple way and it's a
[2:55] practice I call the work and it's
[2:59] inquiry and a great a great mind on said
[3:07] that an unquestioned mind is not worth
[3:09] living and I've come to Susie that this
[3:12] is absolutely true if he was Socrates
[3:14] but in in my experience and the
[3:17] experience of millions of people it's
[3:19] really so we question what what we
[3:22] believe or we have to live out of that
[3:25] and if we're suffering we can't actually
[3:28] identify what we're thinking and
[3:30] believing and question it and this is
[3:37] this is what I think is so beautiful
[3:39] about the work is it's so simple and
[3:43] it's so profound and part of what I
[3:47] wanted to really dive into with you I
[3:49] recently heard you speaking you a
[3:53] recording of you and I think back from
[3:55] 2015 and you were talking into an
[3:57] experience you had where you were
[3:59] entering into the prison system and
[4:02] having these conversations with some men
[4:04] in the prison system and you said that
[4:08] it had been years since you'd left the
[4:10] world of duality and it had been years
[4:13] since you'd actually had a negative
[4:15] thought and why what I wanted to sort of
[4:19] dive in that was really profound for me
[4:21] because I have been living with a belief
[4:24] that we cannot control
[4:26] all the thoughts that enter our mind but
[4:28] we can create the space to question them
[4:31] and choose something more empowering but
[4:33] I wanted you to maybe clarify what you
[4:36] mean like it how do we get to a point
[4:38] where we don't it we don't even have the
[4:41] negative thought to question well you
[4:43] know if I believe it right well actually
[4:46] the work is meditation it's a practice
[4:49] and I invite people you know to daily
[4:51] practice where as we identify those
[4:54] thoughts that are so depressing or enemy
[4:59] making and sad making and we question
[5:05] them and and I really don't recall
[5:09] recall your question could you isolate
[5:12] it of course of course so I wanted to
[5:15] know sorry I I have a perspective of or
[5:18] I have had that where you know the trick
[5:20] is if I can go back to moment from what
[5:23] I heard from you I can respond this way
[5:25] it's not about getting rid of my
[5:27] thoughts it's about understanding my
[5:31] thoughts because if I don't understand
[5:33] my thoughts I can't understand people in
[5:36] my world my children my grandchildren my
[5:38] husband myself so if I question those
[5:43] thoughts they they lose their power and
[5:46] actually let's say if I had the thought
[5:51] oh this is this is very radical I don't
[5:54] know if I can go here or not but but
[5:57] before it well it would be like um this
[6:04] person doesn't care about me if I had
[6:06] that thought then that's not depressing
[6:08] because I questioned it I have an
[6:11] understanding within me so I would
[6:14] celebrate that person is thinking for
[6:16] themselves they have a right to their
[6:19] own conclusions they have a right to
[6:21] believe what they think they don't know
[6:23] me so it's not about me if state is if
[6:27] they believe they don't like me for
[6:29] example
[6:30] that's about them and what they're
[6:33] believing about me so that is not
[6:36] personal with me so if someone says I do
[6:39] like you at all then I am I stay
[6:44] connected
[6:46] I don't separate from that person I
[6:49] under and so they don't care about me
[6:54] ceases to be a thought in my head that I
[6:58] even want to get rid of because it
[7:01] ceases to be a negative experience so
[7:05] that is a very profound way to live out
[7:10] of out of life where the only thing the
[7:14] only thing in this world that had hurt
[7:16] me is what I'm thinking and believing
[7:19] about me about you about my world so
[7:23] that gives me 100% control and and and
[7:30] responsibility for my world for my life
[7:35] for me and I can tell you it's a much
[7:39] kind of world because I know what hell
[7:42] is I you know I came out of that
[7:45] ten-year spiral buy some state of grace
[7:49] and I didn't I didn't ask for it I well
[7:53] you know maybe I did because I was
[7:56] screaming at some point take me home and
[8:00] on that floor
[8:02] I was I was some I received a great gift
[8:05] and because I pass it on I'm it
[8:09] continues to expand my mind this
[8:12] wonderful mind I have a new book coming
[8:15] out this month or next month anyway it's
[8:18] on my website people can go to Amazon
[8:21] and find it what I'm describing really
[8:24] is a mind at home in itself and that's
[8:28] the name of the book and mind at home
[8:29] with itself and it doesn't if that is in
[8:33] mind that is no longer a war with itself
[8:36] so to understand what what you think is
[8:42] peace and to understand what you think
[8:45] is to understand what everyone says in a
[8:50] way that doesn't separate me it
[8:53] fearless state of mind in a fearless
[8:55] life as far as I know and I'm very open
[8:58] to whatever Life brings you know but so
[9:00] far so good and I absolutely on so I'm
[9:05] really taking all of this in and just
[9:08] feeling into it and it's already
[9:10] expanding my mind as well and I love
[9:14] that and well there's no prohibition
[9:16] there's no prohibition in it there's no
[9:20] no wall there's nothing to do except
[9:26] take our problems to paper and question
[9:29] them and of course directions for that
[9:31] are on the work calm is free and anyone
[9:35] can do this if their mind is open to it
[9:38] definitely and something that just
[9:41] popped into my mind was really asking
[9:44] you about identity because I hear from
[9:47] what you're saying is that that ability
[9:49] to dis identify from our thoughts and
[9:52] and that is what creates that freedom so
[9:55] that we're not triggered we're not at
[9:58] war with the people in our lives our
[10:00] selves and all things and I wondered
[10:03] what you know because it's I'm just
[10:06] trying to get my mind around it that
[10:08] whole concept of what like how do you
[10:11] see yourself if do you you know if we
[10:14] don't identify with you know our
[10:18] thoughts which is our kind of
[10:20] consciousness then what is our identity
[10:23] well you know we're not left with much
[10:26] and we're left with a lot because if my
[10:30] if my husband says I love you then then
[10:34] what he's thinking and about what he's
[10:36] thinking believing about me is the
[10:40] person I am to him so my children the
[10:45] same my friends the same people in my
[10:47] life the same what they're thinking and
[10:49] believing about me becomes my identity
[10:52] within them and if they don't care about
[10:55] me that would be painful if they do and
[11:00] because the me isn't personal and if
[11:03] they do care about me that is a that is
[11:06] wonderful thing it's the ability to care
[11:08] and again not personal with me but all
[11:11] my identities are held as a separate as
[11:14] a separate structure for everyone that
[11:17] knows me so so why would I bother with
[11:22] identity when I have so many it's like
[11:26] I'm I'm unnecessary as far as creating
[11:30] an identity because there's so many out
[11:32] there now if someone says can you hurt
[11:38] my feelings
[11:39] I immediately would say oh my goodness
[11:44] you know let's discuss that I don't want
[11:47] that in my life
[11:48] I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings
[11:50] so tell me specifically so we could talk
[11:53] that through and that grows me because
[11:56] if I have said or done something to
[11:59] cause another person harm they wake me
[12:02] up to it
[12:03] and in that I'm aware of what I was not
[12:07] aware of prior to that so there's no one
[12:10] in this world that does not serve my
[12:15] beautiful mind to expand this mind at
[12:18] home in itself to expand but on its it
[12:23] really is you know no identity necessary
[12:28] but if I if I look sweetheart if I if I
[12:31] look too it's like on this morning I was
[12:35] sitting in the home sitting in the
[12:37] kitchen was Stephen my husband and and I
[12:41] see that in my mind's eye you probably
[12:44] saw me in the kitchen with my husband
[12:46] just then and and you didn't even have
[12:48] to meet my husband but if you can see an
[12:51] image of my kitchen and you've never
[12:53] seen my kitchen but but you were there
[12:56] so if I if it when when I see that in my
[13:00] mind's eye when I'm discussing that with
[13:03] you if you know I look at that's not my
[13:06] identity that's that is that is an image
[13:11] of that is an image it's not real so I
[13:15] am the one speaking to you here now and
[13:18] that's all the
[13:20] entity I need to hold when a mind is at
[13:23] home with itself no identity is
[13:26] necessary it is just it is just wide
[13:30] open to everything because that's what
[13:33] love is just an experience and so
[13:38] anything that would interfere with that
[13:41] in my life I question it and and I
[13:46] invite the world to that because
[13:48] suffering is optional Wow I love that
[13:54] and you know something that sort of came
[13:56] to mind there you know was really a
[14:00] question around being intentional so I
[14:03] could I could I you know if we question
[14:08] our thought and we don't identify with
[14:10] our thoughts and we ultimately want to
[14:13] stay open to the experience of
[14:15] everything that happens in this moment
[14:17] without identifying with it and that
[14:19] ultimately is love then you know how how
[14:24] do we how do we decide when to be more
[14:27] intentional is it outside well in
[14:29] general just living that way is nothing
[14:32] I could do
[14:34] it's nothing that I could decide or do
[14:38] it's it's what I'm left with
[14:41] it's the consciousness I'm left with the
[14:44] Enlightenment I'm left with after
[14:46] inquiry so this is not something I could
[14:50] control this is not something again that
[14:54] I could do it's something that that it's
[15:00] the way my mind works
[15:01] after inquiry all the inquiry that I've
[15:05] done in in my life and you know just
[15:08] sitting in that practice of awareness
[15:10] until finally not just me but a lot of
[15:14] people it's ongoing because the inquiry
[15:17] is alive in them the practice is alive
[15:20] in them and it's not just sitting in the
[15:23] mornings meditating on on he betrayed me
[15:28] is it true
[15:31] so would you say that the the inquiry is
[15:34] a way of theme it's you know we're all
[15:38] being it's just are we happy in it
[15:41] now the be on the thing you may be
[15:46] looking for then I'm sensing is how can
[15:50] we have a better life a more creative
[15:54] fabulous life
[15:56] every time we question our mind we it's
[16:02] like less space junk is out of those out
[16:05] of the way the state news in other words
[16:08] the things we find that are not true for
[16:10] each of us individually you know
[16:12] ourselves the one inquiring but when we
[16:16] start you know it clears the head full
[16:19] of junk full of fake news and in that
[16:24] the choices we make are brilliant they
[16:29] come out of knowledge and pure
[16:31] creativity and are doable they're not
[16:34] beyond us and the directions are all
[16:37] there that's knowledge but all these
[16:40] things we're thinking and believing to
[16:42] create the false self you know III me me
[16:46] me I I is the the the clutter that that
[16:54] keeps us from the awareness all that
[16:57] knowledge that is always there so
[17:00] through inquiry our choices become
[17:05] clearer and and I have I have come to
[17:10] see beyond a doubt that this universe is
[17:13] friendly and wisdom wouldn't take me it
[17:18] you know wisdom so clear you don't even
[17:20] have to second-guess it it's wisdom is
[17:22] wisdom but it's having how to be how to
[17:26] give it enough space to reveal itself to
[17:28] us because it's ready it's just waiting
[17:32] for an open mind and I can certainly
[17:34] attest to that but you know to that my
[17:37] life does mmm
[17:41] and I love I love the concept of the
[17:44] false self would you say that that's
[17:46] what people refer to as the ego and just
[17:49] the chatter that you go to
[17:50] unquestionably yeah the ego uh-huh and
[17:53] and what we're believing creates the ego
[17:56] so when we question what we're believing
[17:58] and it sheds its skin like a snake only
[18:04] at a much quicker rate and it just
[18:06] leaves us enlightened to what is true
[18:10] and what is not for ourselves this is
[18:13] personal work and I really I love that
[18:20] you said that you've come to believe
[18:21] that it you know you've come to
[18:23] experience that it is a friendly
[18:25] universe and when you speak into that do
[18:28] you do meet you know because so many of
[18:30] us are suffering because we're attached
[18:33] to these memories and these projections
[18:35] of our past and how bad that was and
[18:39] yeah and it's a projection and do you
[18:42] mean to say that we can find the
[18:45] positivity in that or do you mean to say
[18:47] that it's just it no longer exists well
[18:50] what I what I mean to say by that I
[18:53] think that is is is really really
[18:56] valuable it's just to identify what we
[18:59] were thinking and believing in those
[19:01] situations that just haunt us and to
[19:05] write them down and to just get quiet
[19:08] and sit in the practice and again you
[19:10] know I'm all over YouTube and and me and
[19:14] the work calm how to do the work
[19:17] absolutely free and that's a process but
[19:22] I've used myself and had tremendous
[19:24] value in and and particularly with some
[19:28] clients that I've worked with just to
[19:30] shift their perspective and actually
[19:32] create that space and it's so freeing so
[19:36] work and I I wonder if we could um give
[19:41] the audience just I know you've done
[19:42] this a million million times and I'm
[19:45] sure it doesn't
[19:46] you know yet but is you serving this
[19:48] beautiful mission but I wondered if we
[19:50] could give our audience a short example
[19:53] as to
[19:54] what inquiry looks like with those
[19:56] questions and definitely invite them to
[19:59] go to the work calm and check out you've
[20:02] got some great tutorial videos which is
[20:04] no easy to follow along with but an
[20:07] example that I wanted to to see if we
[20:12] could utilize this because this is
[20:14] something that's come up for a client of
[20:16] mine who appears to be trapped in you
[20:19] know that story and I wondered if you
[20:22] could explain his story that he is
[20:25] currently sort of really trying to move
[20:28] through is that he he really doesn't
[20:31] believe that he deserves success yeah so
[20:35] I wondered if we could use that as a
[20:37] potential example as to and utilize the
[20:41] work well first I would ask myself is it
[20:44] true that I don't deserve success now
[20:48] first I'd have to define success because
[20:52] if it should all over the map then I'm
[20:55] not even close to what I want you know
[20:59] I'm imagining that success is a good
[21:02] thing but I'm not sure I want it you
[21:06] know so versed on my question I want
[21:09] success and define it if he's talking
[21:12] about money and position and power and
[21:14] and you know all those things he'd have
[21:18] to define it and or if he just enters
[21:21] interested in freedom that would be
[21:24] another definition of success so I don't
[21:28] know what so how would you define it
[21:31] knowing him mm-hmm
[21:33] so let's go you're not hurting for unit
[21:36] of course so this would be more related
[21:39] to business success so I would assume
[21:41] success in in business financial success
[21:45] wealth creation let's use that it's okay
[21:48] only the deafening so I don't deserve to
[21:51] be wealthy he may wanted to to look at
[21:57] it that way or if he has more in that
[22:00] package of what do you think somebody
[22:02] see success to stay with I don't deserve
[22:05] to be I don't deserve success
[22:07] so the question is is it true that I
[22:11] don't deserve success and then just do
[22:14] just you know I've gotta shift this you
[22:19] know I where I would go with this with
[22:21] him is I want success is it true just
[22:26] straight up because it's money its
[22:28] business it is it's like that that's
[22:31] what we're we're pointing to here so I
[22:34] want success is it true and that you
[22:40] know there's a lot of entailed in-depth
[22:44] you know like I want success is it true
[22:50] what a question can you see everything
[22:54] in there I mean how much of in there
[22:57] it's a lot especially if you have a
[23:01] family yeah it's a lot to consider
[23:05] especially if you already have a job
[23:08] I want success is it true it's a huge
[23:13] question to fit in and then I want
[23:17] success and then just to close your eyes
[23:20] it's meditate on this next question how
[23:25] do you react or I'll say it this way if
[23:28] that were my thoughts how do I react
[23:30] what happens when I believe the thought
[23:32] I want success okay so I meditate on
[23:36] that and I see first I see that my mind
[23:41] compares me unsuccessful me with all
[23:48] those wealthy people I see them there in
[23:50] their suits and they're they're
[23:52] empowered and and they're lecturing or
[23:56] they're getting in there they're they're
[24:03] going up their elevator in their very
[24:05] own building and and then I compare it
[24:10] with me me who has no success okay so
[24:15] you see those images there's all the
[24:17] successful people and then there's me
[24:20] now people with fabulous business
[24:23] fortune 500 businesses do exactly the
[24:29] same thing and it's not fun the mind
[24:36] compares that's how the ego that's
[24:39] that's how the ego works so I just am
[24:42] meditating on how I react when I believe
[24:45] the thought I see all those successful
[24:47] people and and I see me and I am NOT
[24:51] looking good and that's depressing and
[24:54] then I see me trying harder and harder I
[24:56] see me failing and failing and failing
[24:58] when I believe the thought I want
[25:00] success and and I witnessed that and and
[25:05] I see my money's running out and I see
[25:08] what I've invested and I'm really and I
[25:11] see me trying again I want success so I
[25:18] explore that and then he is so telling
[25:23] no wonder I'm exhausted at night you
[25:27] know just that's emotional and that's
[25:30] going on all the time for these for
[25:33] people who want success and for people
[25:35] who want more success that are already
[25:37] the world would say you're successful
[25:39] stop now but that's not how it works
[25:44] usually we want you know I want to be
[25:47] more successful so on so then that's
[25:52] that fourth question who would I be
[25:54] without this not just meditating on that
[25:58] who would I be without the thought I
[26:01] want to be successful without that
[26:05] thought and then I will examine my life
[26:07] - that thought superimposed into my life
[26:11] and just meditate on that then I'd turn
[26:16] it around and for your audience we're
[26:18] just going through is it true how do you
[26:21] react when you believe the thought and
[26:22] who would you be without it just those
[26:24] those questions and then we find
[26:27] opposites I want success to run I don't
[26:29] want success okay so
[26:33] what does that mean to you open your
[26:35] mind what does that mean to you and
[26:36] that's radical for someone who's who has
[26:38] been worshipping I want success and we
[26:42] learned that as children you know in its
[26:45] own way so I don't want success okay one
[26:49] okay let's see that would be time away
[26:50] from my family potentially I don't want
[26:54] success oh my gosh it would require me
[26:57] to hire and fire and on and on it I mean
[27:04] I just see this onslaught coming on me
[27:06] and maybe that's okay with me but it's
[27:11] also showing me what I need to be
[27:15] successful I mean there's a whole list
[27:19] of things here and it's like a blueprint
[27:22] for what you already know and didn't
[27:26] know that you knew and then you start
[27:29] interviewing people who are successful
[27:31] and for people who work for successful
[27:33] people and you start to learn you start
[27:36] to grow and when that when that stuff is
[27:39] inside of you you're being educated
[27:41] because your mind is open I mean there's
[27:43] no limit to where just sitting in just
[27:46] one one concept there's no limit to
[27:51] where it can take you if you really get
[27:53] still and sit in inquire in those
[27:56] turnarounds and I don't want success and
[27:58] it could be that you just laugh and say
[28:01] I want no piece of that you know I just
[28:04] I and I I have a you know without that
[28:07] thought I have an amazing life some
[28:11] people really do and because they
[28:16] believe that they want the success it
[28:19] wipes out their awareness that they
[28:21] already have a success if they're if
[28:24] their goal is a happy life mm-hmm all
[28:28] kinds of options in there and we find
[28:30] what we find but it's self education and
[28:33] we're tapping into that wisdom all the
[28:35] time when we get still like that shows
[28:39] and and do you find that it's more
[28:43] difficult for the people that you work
[28:45] with and you take through this
[28:46] experience
[28:47] and when they have had like a actual
[28:50] past experience or is it just the same
[28:54] is it really just the same no matter
[28:55] whether they've had an experience with
[28:58] now if they had all that ignite would
[28:59] say if they had all that success and
[29:01] they lost it you maybe they had all the
[29:04] great okay but I think so it would be
[29:06] exactly the same it would be exactly the
[29:10] same inquiry because you know when you
[29:12] get to on I want success is it true and
[29:15] they sit in there they go WOW know what
[29:20] to just or they or they Michael you know
[29:23] yes and then you just move to the next
[29:26] how do you react when you believe the
[29:28] thought you know through depression
[29:33] frustration yeah mm-hmm
[29:37] and I guess something that just popped
[29:39] up and I think I'd need to probably
[29:41] meditate on this myself but since we're
[29:44] in this conversation I'd love to ask it
[29:46] of you and do you believe any of your
[29:50] thoughts or is it just do you choose to
[29:52] believe the thoughts that are empowering
[29:55] coming from that place of love well I
[29:57] can move to believe a thought I I do or
[30:01] I don't so that's really relieving
[30:04] that's a relief I don't have a choice
[30:07] whether I you know thoughts come through
[30:11] and and I believe them are I don't know
[30:16] choice and if they if they depress me or
[30:20] or separate me from another human being
[30:22] or they're hurtful in any way they go
[30:25] against my heart basically then um then
[30:28] I put them on paper and that's my
[30:32] meditation for the morning all right
[30:36] just doing where I tell you it right
[30:37] away
[30:39] hmm so the okay so I just want to love
[30:44] to hear you talk a little bit deeper
[30:46] into that like I said I need to go away
[30:48] and meditate on this I think that so we
[30:51] do not have a choice as to believing our
[30:55] thoughts or not it's not as they're not
[30:57] as they're happening
[31:00] we believed on we believe them or we
[31:03] questioned them there is no other choice
[31:06] okay okay and oh alright yeah I
[31:10] definitely need to be meditating on them
[31:12] going to be that's my work for us
[31:14] through our call today and I wanted to
[31:18] ask you another question about you know
[31:21] how could somebody and I'm sure it will
[31:24] be the same process but how could
[31:25] somebody battling sort of suicidal
[31:27] thoughts move and transition into a
[31:31] state of joy or end that buffering from
[31:35] the ice I suggest to people that they
[31:38] just start with on moments in time that
[31:42] recur to them with a mother father
[31:45] sister brother just the basics
[31:47] worksheets on on on those moments in
[31:50] time that were so sad or hurtful or or
[31:54] you know that are hurtful and and just
[32:00] do worksheets on them just start there
[32:01] and depression live because it's sort of
[32:06] they're in that position where they're
[32:08] looking to any suffering on the physical
[32:10] level where you know that that that
[32:13] doesn't work it doesn't work and here's
[32:16] why there's no one to realize that they
[32:21] don't hurt anymore yeah yeah and you
[32:31] know I would I was so suicidal and all
[32:34] those years and on I didn't figure this
[32:38] out until until much later you know
[32:42] after the depression but they're really
[32:45] if I had kill myself who's there to
[32:47] realize it I'm not there to realize it
[32:50] so what good does it do and there is a
[32:54] way through on those those sons wanting
[32:59] to die and the way the way out is to go
[33:03] in and that's my experience and and and
[33:08] I have worked with many people you
[33:11] these left 28 years and in the same for
[33:16] them wonderful and I wondered if you
[33:23] could talk into how we could how we
[33:29] could use the work specifically in our
[33:32] relationships and and enhancing those
[33:36] relationships and I wonder if you could
[33:39] give an example either from your own
[33:41] life force or the lives of the people
[33:43] that you work with in terms of how they
[33:46] have gone from a relation an ego-driven
[33:49] relationship to a truly loving
[33:52] relationship well to first realize that
[33:54] the person you live with that protect
[33:56] that person that relationship that you
[34:00] pointed out that that's I'll just put it
[34:05] from here because it's my experience on
[34:07] that that's my teacher the people I live
[34:11] with or my partner let's say is my
[34:14] teacher so anytime I'm angry my partner
[34:17] are frustrated or feel hurt I judge my
[34:21] partner write it down ask for question
[34:26] with every every complaint there and I
[34:29] turn it around and it lightens my my it
[34:34] lightens the identity I put on my
[34:38] partner so when I see him I see him as
[34:42] innocent I see him without that post-it
[34:47] that I had planted on him
[34:50] and so our on the people we live with
[34:53] they are our teachers everything in life
[34:55] is to wake us up the people in the you
[34:59] know in our partnerships are romantic
[35:02] relationships our the people in their
[35:06] lives they're there to wake us up every
[35:08] catastrophe in the world is about waking
[35:10] up everything is there's nothing that
[35:13] isn't if I break my arm it's to support
[35:17] me to wake up whatever push needs to
[35:20] happen happens and we all need different
[35:23] pushes we need to lose our
[35:24] with our legs or a partner or we need
[35:28] our our car repossessed whatever it is
[35:33] it's about waking us up and when I
[35:36] discovered that you know if inquiry is
[35:38] the fast-track mm-hmm and Katie are you
[35:45] still waking up do you still have those
[35:47] 90 motions mind is your mind is it mind
[35:50] is infinite it's infinite it ends and
[35:54] it's an unending beautiful beautiful
[35:58] beautiful experience there's nothing to
[36:01] stop it it doesn't get stuck on he
[36:03] doesn't care about me I need this I want
[36:06] that or there's something wrong with you
[36:08] and there's something wrong with me it
[36:10] doesn't get stuck and dwell on those
[36:12] places when it's awake it just is free
[36:16] to continue to create out of none of
[36:19] this just pure well you know what I love
[36:22] is a happy life a happy life without end
[36:28] and you know freedom is our birthright
[36:31] it's for everyone and anyone with an
[36:34] open mind can question what they're
[36:36] believing because it keeps us stuck in
[36:39] the illusion of time it keeps us stuck
[36:42] in time it holds us back mm-hmm and do
[36:49] you you know do you think of us as you
[36:52] know a part of what I've gained value
[36:54] from that inquiry and particularly when
[36:57] I do to turn around is sort of owning
[37:00] everything within me you know instead of
[37:04] separating different traits within
[37:07] myself and witnessing different traits
[37:09] in another person and generating and
[37:10] disempowering belief and would you say
[37:14] that part of coming to that place of
[37:17] freedom and open-mindedness is accepting
[37:20] so that we are all things every single
[37:22] one of us is everything well if it comes
[37:25] out of my head if it comes out of my
[37:27] head that's the moment it's created and
[37:30] if I don't love it I can always question
[37:33] what I'm thinking and believing
[37:36] mmm beautiful and if people be unruly if
[37:42] people are tell me something then I
[37:46] understand that that that's where
[37:49] they're at and I understand that from
[37:51] experience and I but I'm very well aware
[37:56] of my own and and that's the one that
[38:00] matters and if it's not working for me
[38:02] it belongs on paper so that I can
[38:04] question it soon again for your audience
[38:07] and when I say write it down on paper on
[38:10] what I mean is that's what the thought
[38:13] is stable like if I had the thought he
[38:16] betrayed me I would write that down
[38:18] because the ego will want to shift and
[38:20] say that's not what I really meant I
[38:21] didn't well it really is more like and
[38:24] you know like that so it stabilizes once
[38:27] we write it down and then we carry it
[38:29] with those four questions and turn
[38:30] around all the way through and we can
[38:33] always do the others later I love that
[38:37] and you know I had a question that I
[38:39] really wanted to dive into with you and
[38:41] I'm now starting to question what I'm
[38:45] trying to question you about and I
[38:48] really want to run replying you and it's
[38:50] really referring to religion so at the
[38:52] moment I'm actually obviously I'm from
[38:54] Australia but I'm here in the States and
[38:56] only in Salt Lake City and it is got a
[38:59] really high population of Mormons and
[39:01] I'm really diving I'm going to the
[39:04] churches I'm really expanding my mind
[39:06] and my awareness as to what they believe
[39:09] I'm getting in their belief system so
[39:11] that I can gain this better
[39:12] understanding and one thing that I have
[39:15] found that I need to do the work on is
[39:18] feeling sorry for some people who feel
[39:22] like they are trapped because I'm
[39:24] hearing experiences from them where they
[39:26] are starting to question the belief
[39:28] system that they have grown up in and I
[39:32] wondered if I could ask how you would
[39:35] respond to somebody say they came to you
[39:37] and they were in this religious belief
[39:39] system their entire life and they've
[39:41] gotten to this point where they've they
[39:43] have asked questions of the religion and
[39:46] the beliefs and they've gotten to a
[39:48] point where they're just
[39:50] constantly been told to have faith don't
[39:52] think question have trust have faith and
[39:55] they have so much internal doubt and
[39:59] turmoil and suffering based on not
[40:02] feeling limited in their ability to
[40:04] question so I wondered how would you how
[40:07] would you help and support somebody who
[40:10] is in that position in their life where
[40:12] they're they want to question but they
[40:15] feel trapped by that rainfall of it's a
[40:18] long question you know no one has the
[40:21] question what they think it's you know
[40:24] this is on you know it's not mandatory
[40:29] no one has to do that and everyone has
[40:32] their own path and every path leads to
[40:34] the same place so ultimately that's just
[40:37] how it is
[40:38] but on if someone came to me and I offer
[40:44] inquiry because that's what squirts for
[40:47] me that's that's my path so when people
[40:49] come to me you know they're there
[40:51] they're aware of that and so I would
[40:56] just have them fill in a
[40:59] judge-your-neighbor worksheet on a
[41:00] situation having to do with anything and
[41:03] it had to do with the church then to put
[41:07] their thoughts down what are they
[41:08] thinking and believing about the church
[41:10] or or its people and then we would go
[41:16] through inquiry and it would bring them
[41:19] closer to those people they would they
[41:24] would remain in the church or they
[41:25] wouldn't that's not the point but they
[41:28] would be closer to those people they
[41:33] would not be confused or
[41:36] people critical or worried they'd be you
[41:42] know we don't leave the people we love
[41:44] like the people in my life I don't leave
[41:47] the people I love on they can leave me
[41:51] but I don't leave them in my heart
[41:54] everyone is welcome and I'm very well
[41:58] aware of that but I understand when
[42:01] people
[42:03] um oppose me because they're believing
[42:07] their thoughts about me and so I
[42:10] understand all separation from
[42:12] experience but um you know it's always
[42:16] for me when someone comes to me it's a
[42:18] judge-your-neighbor worksheet but I
[42:20] don't um when I when we sit in the
[42:25] question there's not a goal other than
[42:28] to see what is really true for that
[42:33] individual and to keep me out of it and
[42:38] you know it's otherwise what what value
[42:41] is it you know it is the truth assets is
[42:44] free and ultimately it you know for me
[42:49] freedom is like being brought to love
[42:53] and there's nothing outside of that hmm
[42:58] and and I'm getting from you that it's
[43:02] in our questioning that we get to love
[43:04] so our questioning builds the connection
[43:07] and it is our lack of questioning that
[43:11] creates that separation and comparison
[43:14] yeah yeah and and and love I think it
[43:21] could be that everyone has a different
[43:23] definition of that so that's something
[43:26] that everyone has to to look to for
[43:30] themselves I like the word happiness
[43:32] because it's something that we're it's
[43:34] more relatable to us you know and on
[43:38] that judge-your-neighbor worksheet on
[43:40] the word calm it's a statement for it's
[43:46] on in that situation what do you want in
[43:50] in this case the the church for that
[43:53] person what would make you happy what do
[43:58] you want for what you need for those
[43:59] from those people or that church or that
[44:02] religion to be happy and then you list
[44:06] your thoughts there and you question
[44:08] them and turn them around and it really
[44:11] is you know there's a great experience
[44:15] of love there and
[44:16] and that entire worksheet as we sit in
[44:19] it but it's a it brings us together on
[44:23] with the world and we're no longer at
[44:26] war with the world and what they believe
[44:29] and mmm you know when we're free the
[44:35] people around us are free they're free
[44:38] to say what they want and be who they
[44:41] are and it's and in that I grow and
[44:45] expand because they're always teaching
[44:47] me I'm responsible for what I believe
[44:50] and it's like I didn't believe on
[44:55] purpose but I can identify what I
[44:59] believe when it goes against my heart
[45:02] and I can question it and and that's
[45:06] been the process and it's a beautiful
[45:09] process picture is and that just brings
[45:13] me to a question that one of our
[45:15] audience members wanted to ask you from
[45:19] Brian he said that he's heard heard you
[45:22] speak into defensiveness as the first
[45:25] act of war defend he wonder if you could
[45:28] elaborate yeah defendant I often say
[45:31] defense is the first act of war so on
[45:35] and I still see that that's so in my
[45:39] life so if someone says Katie you are
[45:45] wrong and I take that in and we can have
[45:47] a discussion if I'm not aware of what I
[45:49] said or did that was wrong to my own
[45:52] line then that person can point it out
[45:55] to me so that's a discussion so now
[45:59] we're discussing it and it's something
[46:00] that I can identify with or I can watch
[46:02] out for and so we've had a great
[46:06] discussion when we resolved it that way
[46:09] and it leaves us both opened but if we
[46:13] look at the same thing someone says
[46:16] Katie you're wrong and I say I'm wrong
[46:18] you think I'm wrong how dare you say
[46:20] that to me you know and you're the one
[46:23] that's wrong and that was rude
[46:25] you know I was just stating my point of
[46:27] view and I have a right to that okay
[46:29] so who started the war it was me
[46:32] defensive the first act of war all they
[46:35] said if catiua wrong that's all they had
[46:38] and who started World War you know how
[46:41] dare you how dare you judge me well it
[46:46] was me I started the war so it's not it
[46:49] is not it's not in the first that's in a
[46:52] second and when we look to ourselves
[46:53] it's in the first I started the war and
[46:59] if not what you referred to is sort of
[47:01] the person who came to you and said
[47:03] Katie you're wrong
[47:04] as sort of you know you know being
[47:07] either the student or the teacher do you
[47:09] ask the question okay tell me more about
[47:11] that what does that mean or well if it
[47:14] reason if I can see clearly where I was
[47:17] wrong then we can both have a good laugh
[47:18] because you know I can say oh my gosh I
[47:21] did I'm sincerely sorry and how can I
[47:26] make that right with you and we laugh
[47:28] and we go on and make a right where I
[47:30] can so there's there's no stuck place
[47:34] there's you know it's it's not this a
[47:36] place where mold grows and in resentment
[47:41] and bitterness and shriveling the next
[47:45] time you see that person or gossiping
[47:47] about that person it's all about growing
[47:50] and not getting stuck an inquiry into
[47:53] them is the it's a it's a harmless way
[47:58] there's no there's nothing to believe or
[48:02] not to believe in it it's all about
[48:04] awareness hmm that's beautiful
[48:08] I'm sure he'll really appreciate your
[48:11] elaboration on that as well and another
[48:13] question that we had from another
[48:16] follower Alexandria she actually wanted
[48:19] to ask you about impacts and she wanted
[48:23] to know how can an empath connect with
[48:25] others but also keep themselves in a
[48:27] good state with so many others energies
[48:30] and motives and emotions swirling around
[48:32] the relational atmosphere so how would
[48:36] you sort of an
[48:38] in terms of somebody who identifies
[48:40] themselves as an empath you know I think
[48:44] there's a you know I discussed this and
[48:49] a mind at home with itself I'm sure I do
[48:56] but if I think I know what you're like
[49:00] you're telling me something and I'm
[49:02] feeling horrible and you're being just
[49:07] authentic and sweet and dear and you're
[49:10] in so much trouble and I'm experiencing
[49:13] that as I work with you then that is
[49:16] just all about me I am thinking I know
[49:20] how you feel and when I work with people
[49:24] I know I don't know how you feel but I
[49:28] can only imagine how you feel so in that
[49:32] I can just rip myself to shreds if I
[49:36] weren't more aware that you know if I'm
[49:39] sitting with you it's a it's about how
[49:41] can I help you
[49:42] rather how can it rather than how can I
[49:45] just sit there in my ego thinking I know
[49:48] what you really feel and what you really
[49:51] think and it's so subtle we don't even
[49:54] know we're doing it and it can just wipe
[49:57] out a beautiful teacher take you know
[50:02] just burn them out but um so I suggest
[50:07] you inquiry you know I recommend inquiry
[50:09] and to know yourself a little more
[50:12] deeply and when you know yourself you
[50:14] know you know that you don't know and
[50:19] that don't know that don't know mind is
[50:21] my favorite when you understand the
[50:23] universe's friendly you never need to
[50:25] know anything ever again and the mind is
[50:28] open and there's all the direction in
[50:31] the world is in that mind and it's in
[50:34] it's um it's a beautiful mind that don't
[50:39] know my it never has to worry or project
[50:43] a future its son it understands that
[50:46] this is a beautiful world it is given to
[50:50] us
[50:51] - wake up - but what was believing about
[50:56] the world could use a little work
[51:00] and I definitely see so many of us
[51:03] suffering because of what who were
[51:05] identifying as and I wonder you know if
[51:09] somebody asked you Katie - to tell them
[51:13] who you are how would you answer that
[51:15] question you know I answer it from the
[51:17] birth certificate biron Kathleen and my
[51:21] marriage certificate Byron Cathleen
[51:22] Mitchell and people people don't just
[51:26] say and do you believe it so you know
[51:29] I'm like in the world but not so much of
[51:34] that world I guess you could say uh-huh
[51:38] this is the interesting thing to ponder
[51:41] I think when you have so many so many
[51:44] things that we identify ourselves as and
[51:46] then yeah my question myself I'm I can
[51:50] have the birth certificate in front of
[51:52] me I'm Byron Kathleen is it true and
[51:55] just fit in those four questions and
[51:57] turn around it will blow your mind about
[52:00] who and what you you really are as
[52:04] compared to who and what you think or
[52:07] believe you are it's a those are two
[52:10] different worlds those are one is the
[52:14] world of imagination and the other is is
[52:17] pure grace and and um and knowledge just
[52:26] just um your creativity yeah most
[52:36] definitely and Katie it seems such a
[52:39] pleasure getting to connect me and I do
[52:41] have I do have a final question down but
[52:45] before I do that I would absolutely love
[52:47] for you to share with our audience out
[52:50] there you did mention that you've got a
[52:52] book that's about to come out our mind
[52:54] at home with itself and you've got your
[52:57] website the works calm where people can
[52:59] access the questions for inquiry
[53:02] how can is that best for people to
[53:05] connect with you and dive further into
[53:06] your work is there any way you'd like to
[53:08] direct our audience well I think that's
[53:11] the best way and the work of course is
[53:15] in mind at home with itself as well and
[53:20] people who have who have read the book
[53:24] ahead of publishing our are they think
[53:30] it's an important book and that's the
[53:33] only way I can talk about it and so the
[53:37] work is there and how to do the work on
[53:40] you know for for those people listening
[53:44] now that don't want to wait for that
[53:47] book just go to the work calm and also
[53:50] we have certified facilitators on the
[53:53] word calm that are in the process and
[53:57] they're there and they speak so many
[53:59] different languages and they're so
[54:01] precious and so good and so you can have
[54:06] also we have a free helpline where you
[54:10] can call you don't have to give your
[54:12] name you just call have a worksheet
[54:14] written and ready and they'll do the
[54:17] work with you and and it's um it's a
[54:20] beautiful gift these people often mmm
[54:25] it's wonderful wonderful and the final
[54:28] question that I have for you and it
[54:31] might send one in and and what not after
[54:34] our conversation but I wanted to ask you
[54:37] if you could instill one belief into the
[54:41] minds of everybody in the world right
[54:44] now what what would that belief be that
[54:48] if you're suffering there's a way to end
[54:52] that suffering and that way is to
[54:56] identify what you're thinking and
[54:59] believing it was so powerful about
[55:02] yourself another person and write it
[55:07] down and question it
[55:11] that's beautiful beautiful Katie and I
[55:14] just want to just acknowledge just how
[55:17] beautiful this you know last hour is
[55:19] been to just share this and I feel my
[55:22] mind is expanded already and I am sure
[55:24] that the audience everybody listening
[55:27] would have got so much value from what
[55:30] you've shared with us all today and I
[55:32] just really want to show some
[55:34] appreciation for the work that you do
[55:36] and have done and continue to do in the
[55:38] world
[55:40] it is completely life transforming and
[55:42] acts gives people access to true
[55:45] happiness in their lives so so much
[55:48] appreciation for you and I'm coming to
[55:50] Salt Lake City soon oh I know I know I'm
[55:54] thinking about extending my trip so that
[55:57] I can go okay you know the days on that
[56:00] event anyway it's like it's on it's on
[56:04] my calendar at the word calm for those
[56:06] people who hear this before the event
[56:09] and are interested and yeah I'm very
[56:11] high lighted about that it's like going
[56:14] home again i i'd i love going to Salt
[56:18] Lake City and in pain I will clear the
[56:23] way beautiful way yes I know you like
[56:26] the mountains I'm currently looking out
[56:28] over the mountains and done it's a
[56:30] special special place though I will have
[56:32] those dates all linked up when for our
[56:35] audience so that they can check that out
[56:37] and definitely get in touch with you and
[56:40] the work that you're doing in the world
[56:41] thank you so so much
[56:43] Thank You Vanessa and thank you for your
[56:46] efforts and contribution and making this
[56:49] a beautiful world thank you so much I
[56:53] bye for now